"God's superlative wisdom to harmoniously ordain this very complex universe." It's a pitty that God in his superlative wisdom didn't give us a pair of wings, because you might be watching awe-inspiring mountains (the Lord's superb creation) and accidentally slip and fall on your head 1000 meters below. And this ain't no consequence of the original sin or human imperfection, it's just gravity's law. There's no way to completely avoid danger in this world, then it's not possible to be completely happy, unless a guardian angel is looking after you 24 hours a day. Then why create a material world and humans in the first place, and not just angels? I think that the existence of a physical Universe regulated by rigid laws is evidence AGAINST the existence of an almighty God.
Joseph Joachim
JoinedPosts by Joseph Joachim
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90
Where is the evidence
by KGB inmany of you make claim that god does not exist, you say that you found your evidence in the bible, what i want to know is where is the evidence.
i am not interested in just mere thoughts but actuall evidence
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Are you REALLY sure?
by Dawn inwhen i was one of jehovah's witnesses i was absolutely sure i had the truth.
so sure i would have been willing to sacrifice anything for my beliefs.
i worked hard at study, meetings, service - even aux.
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Joseph Joachim
Dawn, We can all be deceived, but the question is: how easily? IMHO, those who hold strong beliefs (whatever they are) are more easily deceivable, because they tend to shun all evidence contrary to their beliefs. Take the 607 BCE thing, for example. JW's belief that 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times is so unquestionable for them, and so dependent on the 607 BCE dating for Jerusalem's fall, that they will disregard any historical fact pointing to the 587-586 BCE date. Another example is the writing of Daniel's book. Most facts support the hypothesis that the book was written during the Maccabean period by an anonymous author, and there's not a single piece of evidence indicating that the book was written by the historical Daniel during the Babilonian exile. Yet most fundamentalists (Christian and Jewish) stick to the latter point of view. ~ J.J.
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Putting the Mental back in Fundie... get ready to Rapture!
by Abaddon infundamentalism make my blood run cold... some one posted a link to this site on the discussion about that nasty little snuff-religiography book series, and i had a root around.. this is pretty damn mad, and shows how despite their profession to be fundamental followers of a literalistic bible tradition, they are as prepared to interpolate beliefs with no foundation;.
http://www.raptureready.com/rr-donuts.htmlthe granddaddy of heaven-related questions has to be: "will my pet go with me in the rapture?
" usually, i tell people not to worry about their furry friends.
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Joseph Joachim
Hey! Why isn't the Pope leading the list of Antichrist candidates, as in the good old days?
Politically correct Fundamentalism sucks
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Bowen Disfellowshipping/Daramsala Salt Works
by Francois inbill bowen's disfellowshipping is very likely to have the same effect as the attack, by british and conscripted indian forces, on gandhi's followers who attempted to close the daramsala salt works.
this event marked the end of the british raj in india - even though the brits stayed in nominal power a couple more years.
the unprincipled and immoral attack upon unarmed demonstrators showed the world the utter lack of ethics and morals of the the british lording it over someone else in their own home.. likewise, the jw attacks, disfellowshipping of people who attempt to protect the most defenseless, the most helpless, the most innocent members of our society, is a carbon-copy of the arrogance of the british raj in india - and at the salt works that fateful day.. these disfellowshippings will demonstrate to the world the complete moral degeneracy of the watchtower bible and tract society.
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Joseph Joachim
Detective, I agree with you 100%. But most ex-dubs here are still too emotionally attached to the cult to see how INSIGNIFICANT the WTS is for the rest of the world. See Freeman's post above for example, see what I mean?
All this buisness is a storm in a cup of tea. JW will say it's just apostate propaganda and will not listen, non-JW will not care; I doubt the Dateline program will be picked up by other media, so most people will not even hear about it.
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appearing before elders for "sexual miscon...
by razorMind indid anyone have to undergo this?
especially as a teen.
i have 2 cousins (different states, different congs) who got caught fornicatin' and had to appear before the elders.
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Joseph Joachim
In my case it was like Shimmer said, they only asked how many times it had happened, andn they said explicitly that they did not want to hear the details. I don't know if they were following the Society's guidelines or if they were just not curious about gay sex. Probably we should ask Amazing or some other ex-elder.
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Do JWs circumcise?
by Imbue inthis came up in chat of course.. you can get as personal as you like.. crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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Joseph Joachim
Just for the record, the Watchtower considers it a personal decision whether to have a newborn boy circumcised.
Of course they do. They would never condemn a practice that is so common among white American protestants. If people in the US smoked as much as in Europe, then smoking would be regarded as a matter of conscience too.
In Latin America, circumcision is an exclusively Jewish practice. A JW couple who circumcised their son would be seen as weird and the Elders would raise their eyebrows.
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God is Jesus
by evangelist ini am looking for more scriptures that can prove to a jehovah witness that god is jesus, and jesus is god.i found only one verse so far in 1jo:5:20: and we know that the son of god is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his son jesus christ.
this is the true god, and eternal life.. if you know more scriptures that say directly that god is jesus please tell me the verses the jhw will see plainly that jesus is no way an angel, and he is jehovah god almighty.. my friend said if i can prove by the bible only that jesus is god he will leave the jhw society, and he will know that they are teaching lies and they would be to him a dogma religious sect.
my friend gave me a booklet called should you believe in the trinity?, and is jesus christ the almighty god.
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Joseph Joachim
a great many trinitarians do not "know that the Trinity doctrine is about substance, not personage
Not only that, but they ignore that the Trinity Doctrine (or more precisely, the deification of Christ) was a gradual development that took centuries after the canonical books of the NT were completed. This is not a problem for Catholics, who do not believe in the inerracy and completeness of the Bible, but it is a problem for Protestants. But most Fundamentalists are as ignorant of Biblical Exegesis and Church History as the Dubs are.
To put it simple: There's no Trinity doctrine in the Bible unless you take verses out of context as JW do.
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Is anyone on the forum from Illinois?
by Leander inthis site has been a source of tremendous encouragement for me.
i've been able to truly learn quite a bit since i've started coming here.
i've also found the courage that i need which will help me walk away from the jw organization in the very near future.
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Joseph Joachim
Leander, if it's so difficult for you to break the ties with the Borg, then just take it easy and fade away gradually. That way the members of your congregation will not be forced to shun you and the relationship between you and your wife will not get unnecesarily more strained.
There's no such a thing as the right way to leave the Borg. The right way for you is the way that suits you best.
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Does This Make Me A Racist?
by Englishman intodays newspapers are full of the le pen story.
much concern is being voiced that right-wing organisations will ride on this story to make their own agendas more widely known, ie, send all the immigrants back home, britain for the british, sod off everyone else!.
now i personally love different cultures.
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Joseph Joachim
why people from another country choose to emigrate to Britain if they do not intend to adopt the host’s country’s culture and language.
Eman, you have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to believe that learning a new language and adopting a new culture is as easy as changing one's hairstyle.
The answer to your question is simple: they seek to emigrate to the First World because they starve in their own countries. All they want is a job, they don't go to England because they like your culture. As long as they are decent people and do their job, who cares if they do or do not speak English and drink tea?
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Unbelieving Partners
by Sirona init has occurred to me that living as an unbelieving partner to a jw takes its toll on you mentally.
do you start to be influenced by their way of thinking?.
do you begin to see religion in "black and white" terms, even though you claim you are not a jw?.
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Joseph Joachim
My mother has never been a JW and has never been influenced by it.
She's agnostic, or more precisely, indifferent to religion; she just doesn't care. Basically, she thinks the WT religion is ridiculous. She never looked at the problem in terms of true/false religion, which is how religious people see it and what makes them strong opposers. She only says, "if there's something of value in the WT religion, then why only poor and under-educated people join?"I wish she had opposed more strongly, though; that would have saved me some time. But all is well if it ends well, I suppose. On the other hand it is true what Cpiolo says, dubs are not wrong about everything, so you shouldn't expect a "neutral" person to be against everything her/his JW partner says or does.